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--- admin:dmr_administration [2021/03/26 09:36]
kd6kpc [Editing a Repeater's Assigned Talk Groups]
+++ admin:dmr_administration [2024/01/17 17:16] (current)
KD6KPC [User Submissions]
@@ Line 15: / Line 15: @@
 ==== Nomenclature ====
-On Repeaterbook.com, we use certain nomenclature matches the DMR community to reduce the probability of confusion. it is important to know these terms and what they mean.
+On Repeaterbook.com, we use certain nomenclature that match the DMR community to reduce the probability of confusion. It is important to know these terms and what they mean.
-=== Wide Network ===
+=== IPSC ===
-This is the flavor of the DMR system. There are three different flavors, DMR-MARC, DMRplus (DMR+), DCI, and BrandMeister. The architecture of each is a little bit different. We track the Wide Network because it influences the architecture of a client-radio code plug.
+IP Site Connect is a way of connecting a DMR repeater "site" to the Internet. The connection is handled by a c-bridge. In the Ham world, IPSC refers to the entire network from the remote repeater to the c-bridge. System admins give their connections names, which are referred to as IPSC networks.
-=== Local Network ===
-A local network is a group of repeaters that have very similar talk groups. They tend to be linked to each other through the talk groups in various ways and connect to the same c-bridge.
 === c-Bridge ===
 This is like a server. The Local Networks connect to the c-bridge, which handles the routing of talk groups. The c-bridge can route talk groups to other repeaters within the same local network or send it out to other c-bridges or even cross over to other Wide Networks.
+We don't track c-bridges per se but wrap up the entire network infrastructure into the IPSC name.
 ==== Editing a Repeater's Assigned Talk Groups ====
-**Talk Groups should be administered by the Repeater Custodians when possible**. Repeater talk groups change so often that it is very difficult to keep up with them. They often times end up out of data, which is frustrating for users trying to make code plugs. If a repeater owner or custodian wants changes to the talk group configuration, please encourage them to sue the self-service module. You can assist them, as needed. **
+Talk Groups are completely administered by repeater trustees or system admins on one of two websites, depending in their IPSC connection. Id they are a BrandMeister repeater, then RepeaterBook uses the BrandMeister API to automatically display the currently connected (live) talk group connections to that repeater. Other details about the repeater are also gathered through the API.
-First of all, you need to understand what a talk group is and why DMR repeaters use them. Talk groups are not just used on DMR repeaters, but also P-25 and other repeater digital modes. Essentially, a talk group is a channel within a channel. The talk groups are assigned a numerical code, and when all of the other radios are "tuned" or listening for that particular talk group code, or ID when someone talks, they all listen. A radio tuned to the same repeater frequency and not listening for that talk group ID may not hear anything (the only time you would hear something is if you had your radio set to listen to all conversations, regardless of the talk group.).
+For repeaters connected to the traditional c-bridge based networks, radioid.net can track talk groups. Many repeater owners mistakingly only use radioid.net to obtain a DMR ID, but they are so much more than that. Repeater owners can go to their account on radioid.net and use their tools to add information about the talkgroup deck and other details they may want users to know about their repeater. RepeaterBook then uses radioid.net's API to display that data on the repeater's Details page.
-Since DMR repeaters are typically linked to centralized computer hubs, called c-bridges, using talk groups allows repeaters without a user actually monitoring a talk group to remain quiet. An exception is if a repeater has programmed that talk group to be full-time or only activated by PTT.
+There is a third way to add talk groups. This way may be preferred by larger DMR systems. We can accept a CSV file to sync the talkgroup deck as described [[https://www.repeaterbook.com/index.php/en-us/2016-04-07-21-08-49/9-blog/62-dmr-talkgroup-syncing|here]]. The CSV has a very simple and consistent format. The file can be placed on your own website, and RepeaterBook can grab and process the file at whatever interval you would prefer.
-So, another caveat to the talk groups is the full-time vs. PTT monitoring. Repeaters have the option of monitoring and repeating all traffic for a talk group all the time. Usually, owners will program a talk group only to be monitored when a user requests it. This can really cut down on the chatter and is a common setting for large area talk groups, like the Worldwide talk group. For users to use that channel, they bring up that talk group on their radio and key the radio. This will send a message to the repeater to begin actively monitoring that talk group. This is the same in concept to dialing up an AllStar room, IRLP node, EchoLink node, etc. The repeaters are also set up with a hold-off timer, which is how long the repeater will listen to that talk group without hearing a local key up. RepeaterBook does not track hold off timers.
+In summary, talkgroup data is now handled completely by repeater owners and DMR system admins. RepeaterBook cannot add the data directly but pulls it from radioid.net, BrandMeister, or a CSV file. We believe this is a win-win as the process is simpler and puts the repeater owners in complete control over what information gets published on RepeaterBook.
-The final caveat to a talk group is the time slot the talk group is on. DMR repeaters can actually handle two conversations simultaneously, one on time slot one and one on time slot two. This concept would seem impossible for users of analog repeaters because doubling would occur. However, DMR repeaters can "hear" two radios at once on two different time slots. Essentially, the packets a radio sends when keyed up identify if the radio is on time slot one and time slot two. The repeater then accepts these packets, stitches them together, and sends them on to the correct time slot and talk group. DMR repeaters actually don't allow doubling and can reject a radio transmission when the time slot is already in use.
-So, to add a talk group to a repeater, you need, at minimum, the time slot and the talk group. You can enter the talk group info without the access (full-time vs. PTT), but users appreciate this information. With this data, you can edit a repeater from the "manage talk group" link.
-From the new window that appears, you have three options. One is to Add a Network, Add a Single Talk group, or Bulk Add. You should add the Network (c-bridge) if you know what it is.
-=== Networks ===
-Networks are preferred as they entered into the database with all talk groups and time slots for that repeater's affiliated network. If you add the correct network, the repeater's details page will automatically retrieve all of the task groups for that network. It saves a lot of time because you don't have to enter all individual talk groups. It also allows admins to make a single change for the network instead of edit each repeater one by one.
-To manage networks, please see DMR Network Administration below. This module will allow you to create and edit a DMR network.
-=== Custom Talk Groups ===
-Occasionally, a repeater may have a different talk group access configuration (i.e., PTT-Activated, Full-Time, or Scheduled). You can override this setting by adding the talk group as a custom talk group. You can //only// do this if the access is different. For all other issues, please read about [[dmr_administration#dmr network administration|DMR Network Administration]].
-You can also add a custom talk group if the talk group is not a part of the network, for stand-alone repeaters, or where the network info is not known.
-=== Bulk Add ===
-Bulk add is a spin-off of the [[dmr_administration#Custom Talk Groups|Custom Talk Group]] method of adding. With this method, you can select a preconfigured set of talk groups from a c-bridge or network. A list of all the talk groups available to that network will appear. Sometimes, not all of the talk groups are available for a repeater, so you select the ones that are. You can also change the time slot and access configurations on a talk group by talk groups basis. The talk groups are then added to the database just like the single talk groups are added. Maintenance is performed from the single talk group module.
-===== DMR Network Administration =====
-https://www.repeaterbook.com/DMR/DMR_Network_Management.php
-From the admin dashboard, you can access the DMR Management Module from the link in the Tools section of the menu. It will open a new page. This home page displays all of the current networks. A checkmark is shown if you are subscribed to the network. If you need to create a new network, you can click Create a Network from the menu.
-There is a general rule to adding a network. When adding talk groups, only add talk groups that are common to all repeaters on the network. This applies specifically to the talk group number only. Talk groups with different time slots and access methods (i.e., PTT-activated, Full-time, or Scheduled) can be handled by adding [[dmr_administration#custom talk groups|custom talk groups]].
-When you are subscribed to a network, you will receive notifications from the system whenever an admin changes a network.
-==== Managing Network Subscriptions ====
-Click a network from the home page. The network's home page will show your current subscription status. Click the subscribe or unsubscribe link from the menu to perform the desired action. Whenever new networks are created, all admins will receive an email notification with a link to the subscription module to allow for subscribing to the DMR network. Whenever a change is made to a DMR Network, an email notification is sent to all subscribed admins. This email also provides a link to unsubscribe from the DMR Network.
-==== Adding a Network ====
-To add a new DMR Network, click the link from the menu on the DMR Management home page. You will be taken to a page where you can name the new Network. A new network with no talk groups will be created. All admins on the site will be immediately notified by email. The email will allow the admin to subscribe to the new network you have created. As the creating admin, you will be automatically subscribed to the new network. The network will also be immediately available from the repeater edit pages.
-Above, is in effect, what is happening, but behind the scenes, a network is not actually created until the first talk group is assigned to it. Once the first talk group is added, the network becomes available for assigning to a repeater. As you add talk groups, any subscribed admins will be notified.
-You cannot technically delete or rename a network, but if you delete all of the talk groups, the network will, in effect, also have been deleted. The network will disappear from the database and will no longer be available for selecting or modifying. Deleting talk groups also notifies the subscribed admins.
-==== Adding and Deleting a Talk Group to a Network ====
-Important: Only common talk groups that apply to all of the repeaters connected to this network should be added. For example, if all the repeaters but one allow access to a specific talk group, do not add the talk group to the network. If a repeater allows access to a talk group that is not available to all of the repeaters on the network, then use the custom talk group function from the repeater edit page to add the single talk group.
-Adding and Deleting talk groups is done from a network edit page. There is not an edit function to edit a specific talk group. If there is a problem with a talk group, you must delete it and add a new one.
-To add a talk group, select the talk group from the drop-down menu. Then select the time slot and access. Click Save, and the talk group will be added. Repeat until all the talk groups are added. If you make a mistake, click the trash can to delete the talk group.
-Currently, admins cannot make modifications to the talk groups that can be chosen. If you need to change the name of a talk group as shown in the drop-down menu, please contact the site admin with proof of the correct name.
+=== IPSC Networks ===
+IPSC networks do need to be assigned. This can be done by a RepeaterBook admin or a Repeater Record Custodian (RRC). When adding or editing a repeater we can perform a lookup of radioid.net to see what the current IPSC is listed there, but we may not know when you change it. Be sure to let us know.
-==== Talk Group Database ====
-You can view all of the talk groups in the talk group database available for assignment.
-https://www.repeaterbook.com/DMR/all_talk_groups.php
-These are the talk groups that you can add to a repeater either via a custom talk group or adding to a repeater network.
-The talk group name itself is hyperlinked to another page that will show all of the networks that have this talk group assigned and/or the individual repeaters with the talk group custom assigned.
-The network can then be clicked to be taken to the list of all repeaters within that network.
-Only admins with a high proficiency with DMR have access to edit, add, or delete talk groups from the master databases. Requests are made from the Forum so that all admins that have subscribed to the DMR Forum can weigh in on the change.
-https://www.repeaterbook.com/index.php/forum/dmr-admin
-==== User Submissions ====
-Currently, there is no talk group module for users to propose talk groups. Users must put the talk group info in the notes section of the repeater request form. In the future, a form will echo out the current talk groups and allow the user to propose changes.

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